I definitely agree with what you’re saying: the Scriptures and doctrine are both critical to the faith and it is one of the ways that we can know false teachers from real ones; another way being by looking at their fruit (Matt 7:16). I am encouraged by your zeal for the truth of the scriptures and doctrine, it is needed in the age of Christianity that we live in and is something we are commanded to do! As Paul writes to Titus, “But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.” (Tit 2:1)
I think there is a misunderstanding on what I was trying to say so allow me to clarify; I wasn’t saying that doctrine isn’t important. I was trying to point out that correct doctrine in itself is not sufficient but that the truth of the doctrine must go past merely head knowledge and into the heart of the Christian so much so that changes his very character and person, and becomes his reality – not just ideas and concepts. I think perhaps the point where we are differing is that I believe at the very core of it, it is not about knowing scripture and having correct doctrine. Though those things are essential, it is not be all end all of what makes a godly Christian or minister. There is something deeper that transcends the written words themselves, and that is knowing the very Person of God. Again I don’t disagree with what you are saying; I am in full agreement with it, I just want to expand on it as I think it is important to the original Calvin/Armenian discussion, please bear with me as I communicate my conviction on this as it does relate.
It is not the Bible itself which allows someone to know God but the Living Spirit behind it through whom it was written (2 Pet 1:21 1 Tim 4:1). The Word is Alive and active (Heb 4:12) it speaks, it moves, it is the very thing that sustains us right now (Heb 1:3)! However God uses the written word (the Bible) as a medium to reveal Himself. We can see this in examples in the Bible, the most well known being the Pharisees who memorized the written word but crucified the Living Word Himself (Christ). Another example would be with the secular study of Scriptures! How can we have scholars reading the Bible, spending hours pouring over the Scriptures and then coming to the conclusion that God is a homicidal maniac and then teaching some very skewed heretical version of the Bible and God? It is because they did not have the Spirit (the Person), who wrote the Words, teach them! It is the Spirit that guides us into all truth (John 16:13) and we are all taught by God Himself! (John 6:45)
I would say that there are people in countries where it is illegal to have a copy of the Bible that know God better than we do here in the west. They may have only read a few excerpts here and there that have been scratched down of the actual Scriptures and they may not be as theologically knowledgeable but they have such a heart-reality of God in their lives and such child-like faith not based on what they know but just on Him, that God hears and moves mightily in those places! There is a difference between knowing a person and knowing about a person. If I came up to you and said “Hey I know Obama” and then you said awesome take me to meet him and I went to the front gate of the White House saying “I’m here to see Obama, I know him” Obama comes out and says I don’t know this guys he’s a maniac and I said “What do you mean, Mr. Obama, I know that you were born in 1961 and that you’re the 44th president!” Would they let me in? No, because I don’t really know him I just know a lot about him. This is the same with God! It would be scary if someone spends their whole life studying and debating doctrine and at judgement day Christ says, “I never knew you” and the guy starts to splurge out all his theology that he learned through his whole life…But to no avail.
I think my main point is that at the end of the day we are not following doctrine but a LIVING RESURRECTED PERSON who leads us by His Holy Spirit! When I said “not to get caught up in doctrine” I am saying that we can focus so much on it and miss the Person who wrote them which is what eternal life is: KNOWING GOD AS A PERSON (John 17:3)! However, as I said before, don’t misinterpret what I am saying, because these things (doctrine) are important! They serve as guidelines to knowing God.
Truth is a Person not a set of doctrines (John 14:6). When we see Truth as doctrine, as either one thing or the other, black or white, Calvinism or Armenianism, it will never fit together completely and end up causing division. But if we see Truth and pursue Truth not as doctrine but a Person, then we will start to understand these deep mysteries of God a little more and be united in true fellowship instead of divided over doctrine!
This is why having sound teaching in a service does not necessarily equate to church fellowship. The truth of God can very much be preached while the congregation is as dead as zombies. Instead, I would say sound teaching with the Spirit of God working in the hearts of people into conviction, worship, corporate prayer, repentance and reconciliation = fellowship!
When you’re evangelizing to someone you’re NOT indoctrinating them to believe a set of statements but you are trying to get to them to know a Person! It is impossible introduce someone to a person you don’t actually know, they will be able to tell right off the bat if you know them by the way you talk about them! In fact, if I knew someone as a close friend and you knew about them and we start talking one day about this person I would quickly be able to tell if you actually know this person or not!
Bringing this all together: yes, we can identify false teachers by doctrine and Scripture but more importantly, if we know Him, we will be able to tell if another knows Him or not. This can be found in John 10:
The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them … (14) “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.”
The sheep (that’s us) KNOW his voice and does NOT recognize a stranger’s voice! This is very comforting!
1 John 4:1 says to test the spirits to see if they are from God because many false prophets have gone into the world! What’s interesting here is that it says to test the spirits and not the doctrine! I believe this is because behind every false teaching there is a false spirit! Though we can point out how false teachers are false through scripture (and this is beneficially) we cannot win by arguing with doctrine alone! This is because battle not of flesh and blood but against real principalities of darkness (Eph 6:12)
Taking this back to Calvinism and Armenianism. I don’t think it is as simple as “God is sovereign” or “Man is sovereign” in salvation. Like I said before, it’s both and it works about perfectly as God is perfect – but again, it’s a mystery (the sermon from the first post covers this really well I don’t have time to explain as it would be too long). Right now we are not able to fully understand as it says in 1 Corinthians 13:9-11, "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears...Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." But perhaps one day we will.....
For myself, I will focus on understanding and knowing God in the way that He created and wants me to know Him right now, and not concern myself with matters to great for me.
I read this passage in Psalms 131 the other day:
My heart is not proud, O Lord,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.
But I have stilled and quieted my soul;
like a weaned child with its mother,
like a weaned child is my soul within me.
I think the whole Calvinism and Armenianism topic may be one of those things that we should not spend so much time on, but rather trust God like children, trust that His ways are perfect, and just obey what He says in scripture without having to understand how it all works!
I think many times we are like children who when our parents ask us to do everything we just keep asking, “WHY, WHY, WHY?” and we never get anything done because we’re so caught up in the “why”. In fact, we may go and asking our siblings, “Why?” and they have an answer that is different than ours so we end up arguing about it instead of just doing it! Meanwhile, our parents just want us to stop complaining and arguing and just do it because it’s what is best for us and the world – to just trust and obey! Which was the point of the very first post (LOL).
If there are any questions or concerns on what I said just post lol
In Christ
Evangel
